Thursday, February 05, 2009

Homosexual Marriage - What Really Drives the Issue

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Today there are hearings in Olympia on bills that have to do with the expansion of homosexual benefits under the domestic partnership legislation passed last year. The hearings are open to the public and we have encouraged anyone who can do so, to attend.

HB 1727: scheduled hearing 10:00 a.m. House Committee on Judiciary--House Hearing Room A --John L. O'Brien Building.

SB 5688: scheduled hearing 3:30 p.m. Senate Committee on Government Operations& Elections--Senate Hearing Room 2. J. A. Cherberg Building.

While the press often characterizes the debate over so-called "gay marriage" as a political debate, it is not. It is merely played out through the vehicle of politics.

Neither is it about "hate," bigotry or even the desire to deny anyone anything.

Here's what is driving the issue.

It is about the defense of the sanctity of natural, traditional marriage. The cornerstone of society. A biblical model.

Within minutes of the swearing in of President Obama, he had completely changed and updated the White House website. Prominently displayed was his unconditional support for a long list of gay rights demands.

The official website refers to those who do not support the gay agenda as, "Those who seek to divide us."

J. Matt Barber has written an article, "Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics," that correctly defines what really drives this issue.

He says, "That amid the heated national debate over both religious liberty versus new fangled 'gay rights' and the sanctity of natural marriage versus so-called 'gay marriage' something occurred to me. Either homosexual behavior is sexual immorality or there is simply no such thing as sexual immorality---period."

Barber's article gives clarity and insight to what is really driving the issue of gay marriage.

I strongly recommend you read his article.

Sometimes people of faith are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

Gary Randall
Faith & Freedom

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  1. It is not unlike Matt Barber, Gary, and others on the religous right to make enormous leaps of logic in their efforts to prevent same-sex marriages.

    Really think about Matt Barber's message to you: If you allow same-sex marriage, then NOTHING can be deemed sexually immoral -- period. Not incest, bestiality, pedophilia, polygamy -- NOTHING.

    Really? How many of you believe that? In order for that to be true, there can be no good arguments unrelated to same-sex marriage to be made against any of these questionable practices.

    Let's take incest... If we allow gay marriages, can you think of no good reason unrelated to same-sex marriage that incest should still be illegal? Think hard... how about: it involves minors who often succumb to authority figures and cannot make important sexual decisions on their own, nor are many of them even emotionally or physically prepared for sex.

    That is true whether we allow gay marriages or not.

    So what's going on here? Polls show consistently that a very solid majority of Americans support marriage-like rights (domestic partnerships) for same-sex couples. More support marriage for same-sex couples than support nothing for us. Gary and Matt know that. So, they change the subject. This is not about marriage, they say, but about something much more sinister...

    Is it?

    Tony in Seattle

  2. Thank you Gary for speaking on behalf of the majority at the hearings today. I was and am proud to be a supporter of Faith and Freedom. God Bless.

  3. I don't know how much plainer it can be put. Gays want their God given constitutional rights to be gay. Well homosexuality is a human choice, it is not God given. A lie told often enough becomes a truth. The Bible says a man shall not lie down with another man, and a woman shall not lie down with another woman. God called homosexuality an abomination. I won't reach and say if gay marriage is accepted, all other sorts of abominations will follow. Our society is already far enough down that road. The homosexual agenda is one more cog in the wheel of European socialism, and many gays flee to this country from all over the world because their home countries don't accept their sexual choice.

  4. 12:58 AM

    1. You are incorrect about sexual orientation being a choice.

    2. Our Constitutional Rights are not "God given" but agreed upon by men. In fact God is not mentioned at all in our Constitution.

  5. The Creator is mentioned.....dah.
    Sexual orientation is clearly a choice. It has been proven over and over. More importantly than science are the testimonies of those who finally turn from the abomination.

    Have you ever read the book "The Emperor Has No Clothes"? It is a children's book and yet is very clear in its sociological statement that you can fool many people by vain arguments but when you try to convince someone who is guileless and can see with their own eyes that the Emperor actually is dressed in his underwear they end up just shouting it out. Many a parent knows how truthful children can be.

    No matter how many times you repeat it, man is not made for man and woman is not made for woman. Simple.

  6. 12:26
    God MAY not be mentioned in our constitution, but it's a well known fact that they were written using God's basic principles. The signers all made statements as to how the U.S. needs to 'rely' on God and his Word and principles, to keep our nation intact! Look it up -this is true! Also, 'In God We Trust' is everywhere--our money, in the courts, etc etc~! We are founded on God's principles--thus the responsibility of keeping his principles intact. Homosexuality is a CHOICE==God does NOT make mistakes--when babies are born--that is what they ARE--PERIOD!

  7. As I was reading J. Matt Barber's
    article, what became clear to me
    is that America has been walking
    in Roman's 1:21 and following.

    It's as if God is writing the beginning of the gospel using America as his pen.

    May he soon bring America to Christ, lest the whole world be lost.

    How much we are going to have to suffer as Christians in America I
    don't know. I know it's time for
    America to turn back to God and be
    saved from the consequences of it's ways.

    The good news is that not all of
    the United States is according to
    it's ways. God has a remnant. Within her there is the voice of the redeemed. Let the godly voice
    of this nation be heard. May this
    nation open her ears and be saved
    in Jesus's name.

  8. 2:50 PM,

    Really? Where does God say that blacks are only 3/5ths of a person?(in the bible of course, since this was a provision in the original text of the US Constitution)

    And "In God we trust" was introduced in the mid twentieth century Red Scare time of our politics. You obviously have confused stridency for factuality, how sad.

  9. God is waiting for His Church to turn from THEIR wicked ways before healing our land. So, we should expect it to get worse (judgement, chastisement, destruction) until WE, His Bride, repent of OUR Divorcing and Adultery...

    WE, who say we are of His Name, but do lie (if we call our adulterous relationships, i.e. "re-marriage" to another while our Wife/Husband still lives), are dealing treacherously with the spouse of our youth (i.e. the living spouse we have left/ put-away [divorced] to "marry" another--which is adultery when our pre-existant , living spouse still lives...!), for the living spouse is our husband/wife by COVENANT...!

    And, we are covering our garments with violence...!


    (Admit it and quit it...)

    May God grant US Godly sorrow and

    Satan came, like an angel of light
    But he is a Murderer, a Liar--and The father of lies:
    ..."Hath God said, 'thou shalt not commit adultery'?"...;
    ..."You deserve to be happy (or whatever...)...!";
    ..."Life is too short, get a divorce";
    ..."divorce dissolves (also, why the world now calls it a "dissolution"...) the covenant, so it's OK now"...;

    (--The Truth in love, Seattle, WA)

  10. 2:50pm

    Who said it was a mistake?

  11. Do you guys really believe that we have a choice in who we are physically attracted to?

    It sure doesn't work that way for me. When I first saw my future wife, I didn't have a choice in whether or not I was attracted. I was.

    Do you Christians have a choice in who you're physically attracted to? I don't think so.

    I've known lots of homosexual people and none who would have chosen to go through all the guilt and confusion during adolescence.

    Obviously, there's a matter of choice in what one does about their sexual orientation. But not in the orientation itself.

  12. 3:07
    Yes, "Iv'e known lots of homosexual people and none who would have chosen to go thru all the guilt and confusion during adolescence"
    Has it not occurred to you that in adolescence tis a confusing time anyway. To be 'told' that they indeed 'could' be homosexual! To me is a crime to tell these impresssionable young people this horrible thought! NO-one is the sex they were born with! To 'think' one is homosexual, is a 'man made' thought--never God's!

  13. 10:20 AM

    The type of thinking in your post, is the reason why suicide among LGBT teens is so high. But what's a few dead teenagers, so long as you can justify and rationalize your anti-gay bigotry.

  14. These teens need/deserve help/support to get out of this 'distructive' thinking that they are different. They are not. Focus on the family are doing wonders with those caught in this destructive 'movement' that gays are ok--they are NOT--and with help, they can become whole again with inner peace, that God can give them, and live a healthy normal life--with the opposite sex as a partner for life--period!

  15. 5:35 PM

    Teens, who have gone through these "ex-gay" programs have an even higher rate of suicide. I guess dead or in the closet is they way good Christians prefer their LGBT kids.

  16. "Really? Where does God say that blacks are only 3/5ths of a person?(in the bible of course, since this was a provision in the original text of the US Constitution)"

    The use of 3/5ths was actually a compromise promoted by the abolitionist of the north . The souther colonies wanted to count their slaves as one person thus gaining an advanatage in the House of representatives . This compromose helped stop the advancement of slavery when our country expanded.

    "And "In God we trust" was introduced in the mid twentieth century Red Scare time of our politics. You obviously have confused stridency for factuality, how sad."

    On paper money yes , but In God we trust had been on our coins since the American Civil War . You obviousl have confused gotcha ya last for factuality . Not sad but common .

  17. "If you allow same-sex marriage, then NOTHING can be deemed sexually immoral -- period. Not incest, bestiality, pedophilia, polygamy -- NOTHING."

    Tony perhaps the examples are meant to be derogatory , but the premise is right on . The discriminatory method of only allowing easier marriage contratcs to be expanded to gays shows a lack of logic to myself . Your already promoting a marriage that many consider based in a value system not agreed with . So Ok , we have a law in a plural society that accomades other marriages . But are we limiting it to gay life styles. My value system believes marriage and our cultures support was to help married people with their respeonsibility of child rearing because we as a culture saw that as important in our future . so now gay marriages , why not two brothers , since when do people have to have sex to be married ? I can think of a joke here but I will control myself .
    How about threesomes , since when do we have the right to tell bi sexuals what they do in their bedroom , anf how that have to conform to the two person romantic concept . Since when are polygamy folks deserving less respect then a gay or a hetrosexual couple / ts their faith , it seems it works in their culture , why can't their families have medical cobverage for all involved and other marital benefits ?

    You are the one anting to change the defintition , not me . I figured we keep using the one western civilization has used for thousands of years . I just wonder since your values are different then mine , how come you think only gays should get new marital rights and not other groups ? Sound slike your worse then the Christians here , you know what it is like to feel left out based on differing value systems , now you want to do it to others .

  18. 9:42 PM,

    So, apparently God is A-OK with slavery, interesting.

    As for "in God we trust" it did start to appear on coins during the Civil War, but was not used consistently until the cold war era. Either way, it doesn't date back to our nation's founding, or the Constitution, which you falsely claim is God given.

  19. So, apparently God is A-OK with slavery, interesting.

    I never stated that, you did . Many people justified slavery as they do many things using the Bible as a rule Book . Actually the Abolionist movement was a Christian movement , as the Civil Rights Movement in the 50s and 60s.
    The Bible teaches how to handle the circumstances we face urselves in , scripture relating to slavery from what i always read was from a view point of how to handle situations that are quite harsh .

    "As for "in God we trust" it did start to appear on coins during the Civil War"

    I know that , and that is why I corrected you .
    . The first bill the new Congress passed was the Northwest ordiance , 1787 or something like that . It provided for religious teaching on the fronteir , at that time religious teaching was considered important for developing structure and character. Its just a fact my friend . Its just our history . I am not a believer in mandated government religious dogma myself , I am quite liberal on that view point ,I am not the person who you started the conversation with , but I know all us Christians look the same . ;o)

  20. " I guess dead or in the closet is they way good Christians prefer their LGBT kids."

    What a nasty little man you are . How and why do people say things like this . Do you realize people who may care and provide for people who are gay may read this , that kids may ? I know many men who have come from homosexuality and lived hetrosexual lives . I know some who could not do it , and they face pathetic mindsets of hatred from your side on this matter as they do receive the same kind of hatred sometimes in the Christian community . The total unconcern for the individua who perhaps because of his faith , perhaps because of a dream to be a dad and husband , whatever has no less merit or deserves lack of respect because of your idealogy . And if the person is gay , he should not be judged by Christians . Judging behavior is another subject . A child growing up with friends being 12 or 13 and feeling ashamed or guilty about homosexual feelings is not the fault of Christians , Christians handling their childrens homosexuality badly of course gets an hour on Oprah , but I believe most people have a better grasp on this then you stere0typically and hatefully promote . I don't know too mnay gays who are glad they were glad . Besides social issues , religious or whatever it leaves them out of the loop on many things . Hard to have a civil conversation on this blog because the essays by Gary are often over the top in my opinion , as are the gay commenters here .



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