Monday, April 13, 2009

Day Of Silence: Will Congress Endorse It?

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There is a resolution before Congress, asking the federal government and all public schools to officially recognize and celebrate the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education's Day of Silence goals, which extend far beyond the elimination of bullying.

Laurie Higgins, director of the Illinois Family Institute says, HCon 92 is, "One more insidious, incremental step on the march to wide spread cultural approbation of sexual deviance."

The Day of Silence is scheduled for this coming Thursday, the 1st. Congress has promised a vote on Res. 92 before Thursday.

To participate, students take a vow of silence for the day to protect the "injustices" against students who are homosexual, self-identify as homosexual, bi-sexual and transgender. The very classrooms that have confused these kids as to their sexuality are now honoring their confusion and asking those who are not confused to remain silent for the day.

The day of silence requires that teachers either create activities around or exempt silent students from any activity that involves speaking. Can you imagine any other cause that would so disrupt the classroom with the blessing of public education?

They have politicized the class room around the homosexual agenda. This is but one example from many.

This event is sponsored by a partisan political action group with the implicit purpose of undermining the belief that homosexuality is immoral--that it is some how normal behavior.

Not only are some students taking the vow of silence, some pastors and Christian leaders seem to doing so as well.

I'm asking you to do two specific things regarding breaking the silence.

First call your Congressman or woman and tell them you strongly oppose the Day of Silence Resolution 92 and ask them to vote no on the resolution. You may find contact information on this website.

Secondly, I'm asking you to consider keeping your child out of school on Thursday--the Day of Silence.

If your child attends public school call your school today and ask if they are allowing the Day of Silence this Thursday. Do not ask if they are sponsoring or cooperating, they will tell you no, because it is technically a "student" sponsored event---but in reality, the schools and homosexual activist groups are deeply involved with holding, facilitating and expanding the event.

If the school says yes--in any form, tell them you do not agree with the homosexual agenda and you feel the Day of Silence is indoctrination---not just an attempt to reduce bullying. They will disagree, but don't bother to argue. It won't help at this point. Simply tell them you disagree with the homosexual agenda and your child will not be attending classes that day for that reason.

There is a nationwide effort to encourage parents to take a position against the effort. In some cases public schools lose federal funding when students are absent. If enough parents and students decided to not attend that day, it could be felt economically.

I'm giving you a couple of links you should check out.

The Illinois Family Institute are one of several organizations who are leading in taking a stand against the Day of Silence. There is good information on their site.

Secondly, there is a student response to the Day of Silence, called Day of Truth. There is information about the Day of Truth on their website. This year's Day of Truth is scheduled for next Monday, April 20th.

Don't forget to call your Congressional Representative regarding Resolution 92.

___________________
Gary Randall
President
Faith & Freedom

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31 comments:

  1. I can not see a day of silence getting any Congressional support ? I can see secular liberals and organizations endorsing it . But how can you say your against staring a day of school with a "moment" of silence " ahhhhh people may actually pray , even to God "

    I don't see it , politicians on the Federal level would get so much publicity if they supported this , it would side rail their agenda. Obama would not even support it .

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  2. of course you endorse people calling an seeing if the school supports 'Day of Truth' and keeping their children home if they do, right?

    Sauce. Goose. Gander. right?

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  3. Bullying in schools is a serious issue. An 11 year old boy who did not identify as gay committed suicide last Monday because he was subjected to name calling and bullying. According to his mom students called him "faggot" on a regular basis.

    Hate kills. The day of silence is designed to draw attention to hate speech, nothing more, nothing less.

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  4. So Gary devotes most of his post to attacking LGBT students for organizing an event like Day of Silence. He then follows up with a brief plug for the Alliance Defense Fund's Day of Bigotry. Seems the former is politicizing schools, but the latter is just hunky dory. Hypocritical double standard much?

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  5. Gary, thank you. If you are successful, my kids will have at least one day of school free of that type of prejudice. It will be a great day.

    Also, did you see in the news that the Poznan Zoo in Poland is upset because they bought a gay elephant and they wanted one to reproduce? Since you claim it's a matter of personal choice, perhaps you could explain why an elephant would make that choice?

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  6. I don't get it. Is it that students are supposed to vow to
    say nothing unjust against the
    perverts, abusers of themselves,
    the corrupted, the capitives of sin on that one day?

    It seems to me that we should never say anything unjust to those
    who have fallen in sin as we ourselves have, for haven't we all
    fallen short of the glory of God?

    No one that ever came out of the womb of a woman lived without sin
    but Jesus, who today is the glory
    of God himself, the one who overcame all that was and still is
    against God, having allowed freely
    all that was against him to kill him on the cross, being a pure offering to God. Therefore
    God raised him up again and made him a king that is without dispute, worthy to be Lord of all.

    It seems to me that the government
    should be encouraging prayer and worship of God in schools, spending it's time protecting our constitutional rights to worship, pray and read the scriptures freely.

    Sometimes I wonder what it is they
    are afraid of. If it is God that they fear, it's not a godly fear that causes them to run away from
    him, or to do whatever they can to
    keep him out of schools where he would love to be known, experienced, appreciated, loved, and obeyed.

    If he were, would we not see oppression put under foot?

    But they think their way is better, don't they? Darkness seems
    to be all they have, but let the church walk in the light of God
    and be blessed by him in all they
    do, in Jesus's name, for his purposes of liberating the captives, health and healing, fairness, justice and equity without partiality.

    Let sin be condemned and the sinners set free, free from condemnation and fear. Let Jesus
    reign. Let God have his way.

    Before I came to Christ, I was a dead, stinking, corrupt lifeless
    form that had no hope of ever being cured of my disease that sin
    had left me with. My disease was deep in my soul and I could not get it out by myself. Before I came to Christ, I could not get free of it.

    Now I may stumble and I may fall, but at least I have hope, and I know where to ease my burden of sin that so easily besets me. I will go to the cross to be cleared
    again, for I've not yet found it's
    power lost.

    Can I really do a better service
    to society by keeping silent?

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  7. Gary and his "Christian" cohorts call gay children (and the adults they will become) immoral, perverted, and deviant, among other things, and then he wonders aloud why a Day of Silence is needed.

    When you stop telling these kids they are rejects of humanity and that God hates them, when you stop using government to keep them from legally protecting themselves from violence, when stop supporting empolyers who want to fire them from their jobs or evict them from their homes because of the gender of their spouses, and when you allow them to legally form families and protect their future children just like you can, then the Day of Silence will no longer be needed.

    YOU are the reason for the Day of Silence.

    Tony in Seattle

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  8. When you stop telling these kids they are rejects of humanity and that God hates them, when you stop using government to keep them from legally protecting themselves from violence, (they already have all the legal means they need. No one is allowed to act violently against another - white, black, purple, gay or straight.) when stop supporting empolyers who want to fire them from their jobs or evict them from their homes because of the gender of their spouses,(I'm an employer and I should have the right to fire someone for illegal and/or immoral behavior. It is my business model. I'm paying the employee and the taxes. You can shop other places probably. I think this is a free country.) and when you allow them to legally form families and protect their future children just like you can, then the Day of Silence will no longer be needed. (When are you going to allow me to protect my family, especially if I in particular would like to protect them from aberrant behavior? Oh, that's right I don't have an opinion. I don't have a right to read the Bible and believe what it says.)

    Hey guys, boys don't go with boys and girls don't go with girls. No more complicated than that. I love you all but I certainly don't want to suggest in any way that what homosexuals are doing is normal.

    Speaking of violence. I know there are some peaceful homosexuals out there but I haven't met one yet. Let me count the ways I've seen it....myself many years ago ( luckily I didn't get dragged into it), my Uncle, my Cousin, my husbands ex wife, and hundreds of individuals who have embraced heterosexuality. I experienced the violence myself in all these situations, either by observing, personally or by testimony.

    And I know that you diehards are going to come up with all kinds of excuses and say I'm biased. Nope just my personal experience over the years.:-)

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  9. Hey guys, boys don't go with boys and girls don't go with girls. No more complicated than that. I love you all but I certainly don't want to suggest in any way that what homosexuals are doing is normal.Out of curiosity what exactly do homosexuals do that many many many many more times heterosexuals don't do themselves?

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  10. Anonymous at 3:47:

    If a Christian is attacked because of his/her faith, the crime is considered a hate crime and the punishment is stricter, which acts as a deterrent. Gays do not have that benefit in most places.

    You do not, as an employer, have the right to fire someone for what you consider immoral behavior in many circumstances. I can't fire you because I think your Christianity is immoral, for example. Should we change that law so I can? After all, you probably wouldn't want to work with me, and as you say, it's a free country!

    You also cannot fire someone for being divorced. Or married to someone of another race. Or for having served in the military. What kind of employment do you have, anyway, in which the gender of the spouse has any effect on the ability to do one's job? Sounds like you just want to fire people you don't approve of.

    Your family is protected. You can marry your spouse. The protection of my family does not require you to give up any legal protections of your own whatsoever. There are no limits on marriage licenses, and you are not forced to marry anyone of the same sex just because I do. It's false to claim you have something to give up if I, or anyone, gets married.

    Let's just get right down to it. You want to retain the right to discriminate against me because you don't approve of me. You're afraid that if we marry like you do, or are protected through laws like you are, then others might see that, surprise!, the world didn't fall apart and actually more families and people are better off. And you'll look like a bigot. Well, I refuse to pay the price for your beliefs.

    Speaking of violence, I know there are some peaceful Christians out there, too. But just recently - once again -- a young gay couple was beaten unconscious on an Oregon beach for, well, being gay while taking a walk.

    Tony in Seattle

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  11. How would a 'day of silence'
    respect God?

    Shouldn't a school system have school principals that would put in place a system of the students,
    by the students, and for the students to secure the right of every student to learn, attend, and participate in all school activities without the fear of harrassment, bullying or name-calling?

    I would think that every school should have students elected by the student body who are willing to be called upon if ever there is a matter between students that
    they have not been successful to resolve on their own.

    They could be like the judges, or
    deliverers, or ministers in the work of the ministry of reconciliation like in the Bible.

    They could be called upon to hear
    the matters at hand to see if indeed any wrong (oppression) has
    been done to any student, and judge not by the hearing of the ear, but by searching out dilligently whether or not those things were so, and upon finding out in a wrong was done (such as
    verbal abuse such as name-calling)
    make a plea to the offender or oppressor, "Please have mercy".

    They wouldn't have to use a Bible.
    They could use a dictionary as an
    acceptable book, using the best standard they have, while doing the best they can to find out what is right, for isn't righteousness the heart of all these matters?

    If any student will not show mercy
    toward one he has been bullying, or name calling, or oppressing
    by any wrong behaviour, then the school should have after school
    activity and counseling available
    for rehabilitation.

    Certainly every school needs maintainance right?

    Now wouldn't that be better than
    days of silence?

    The students could learn virtues such as patience, goodness, temperance, meekness, and all other good words that we find in the dictionary.

    It's my personal opinion that all
    good virtues come from Christ Jesus, and we can't well afford to keep him out of what we do.

    I think some good students could put out a whole lot of wrongs with
    a good dictionary if they knew how to use it, and then they could invite their new friend who
    was once their oppressor to their
    after school prayer meeting, praising God and scripture reading
    club, because students don't have
    to bully, name call, or oppress to
    evangelize, open the eyes of the blind, or set the captives free in
    the name of Christ.

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  12. a Christian is attacked because of his/her faith, the crime is considered a hate crime and the punishment is stricter, which acts as a deterrent.

    SO YOU FAVOR THE DEATH PENALTY .



    "Let's just get right down to it. You want to retain the right to discriminate against me because you don't approve of me."

    NO, BUT IT IS OBVIOUS IN YOUR OPINION OF ME

    "You're afraid that if we marry like you do, or are protected through laws like you are, then others might see that, surprise!, the world didn't fall apart and actually more families and people are better off."


    NO, YOU ALREADY HAVE PROVEN WHAT YOU CONSIDER BETTER TO MEAN . YOU HAVE NO CONCERN ABOUT THOSE YOU HATE AND OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOT LISTENED AT ALL TO VIEWS THAT ARE CONCERNED ABOUT SETTIN A PRECEDENT THAT SEES PARENTHOOD BEING PUT EQUALLY AMONG UNNATURAL PARENTS AND NATURAL ONES. YOU HAVE TO DISTORT THE VIEW.

    YOPU HAVE TO MAKE UP STAWMAN DISAGREEMENTS GROW UP

    "And you'll look like a bigot. Well, I refuse to pay the price for your beliefs."

    I'M NOT . YOUR A BIGOT

    "Speaking of violence, I know there are some peaceful "

    I KNOW THEIR ARE SOME PEACEFUL HOMOSEXUALS OUT THERE,

    "But just recently - once again -- a young gay couple was beaten unconscious on an Oregon beach for, well, being gay while taking a walk."

    AND BECAUSE OF THAT YOU DESERVE MARRIAGE RIGHTS. VICTIMHOOD GETS LESS ATTENTION WHEN YOU BECOME MAINSTREAMED. WHICH IS HAPPENING SO POOR POOR TONY DOES NOT WORK HERE . ESPECIALLY WIT ALL THE HATEFUL BLOGERS HERE. THE POOR FOLKS BEATEN UP FOR BEING HOMOSEXUAL IS TERRIBLE, NO MORE IMPORTANT OR LESS THEN IF THEY WERE BEATEN UP FOR ANY REASON .

    Tony in Seattle

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  13. Mick, why the shouting in your response to Tony? That kind of anger can't be healthy for you.

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  14. AND BECAUSE OF THAT YOU DESERVE MARRIAGE RIGHTS.Mick, everyone already has 'marriage rights'. Rights exist before government, they don't come from government. Jefferson thought they were a result of the deist universal Creator's intent, some here think they are bestowed by a sky god, I think they are derived from our biological natures, but no American, and I mean NO American, should think they come from the government. I mean sue your 5th grade social studies teacher if they let any of their class come away with the idea that rights are 'given' or 'bestowed' by government.

    The question is do all citizens have the right to license the civil contract in support of marriage with their spouse, regardless of that spouse's gender. I of course say yes - same biological mechanisms in play, same results, same benefits to society and since other citizens are allowed to license the totally secular civil contract with their husbands why can't I?

    For those that think these rights are just a 'thing' bestowed by a god, that's religion and our primary right is the right to our own religion, and by corollary, acknowledging everyone else's right to NOT be our religion. If the only reason you have is to say that somehow my relationship with my husband is different than Cindy-Lou's with hers then its up to you to show that difference, AND show it is so dramatic as to justify a religion-neutral government from treating two of its citizen's rights differently.

    This is where your side fails - you try, yes you try, but l you can't use American principles to justify your discrimination and the courts say that it is unjustified and the laws that allow such discrimination are unconstitutional.

    Of course many states then just wrote a discrimination exception into their constitutions but that's tossing the baby out with the bath - by doing they they have sacrificed their honor and ethics to force discrimination onto the entire state by law.

    Something NOT to be proud of.

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  15. Teens should not be exposed to these divient behaviours and life styles. When I was a teen, I was grateful to be taught as the truth of gays being a choice, and to be kept quiet with that choice. Life was better for them and us with these attitudes.I pity the teens today to be forced into this 'movement' that is SO opposite from God's principles. To be told they COULD be a 'gay person' is an outrage! God help us! God help our teens!

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  16. 12:03 PM

    Homosexuality is NOT a "divient" behavior or "life styles" (and Christianists wonder why their opposition to equal rights is called bigotry?). You may have thought life was better when gays were forced into the closet by laws that made homosexuality illegal (gee where would anyone get the idea that Christianists would criminalize and jail homosexuals given the opportunity), but I can guarantee you that gay people did not. As the children of noted conservatives Phyllis Schafly, Alan Keyes, Dick & Lynn Cheney, Joseph Nicolosi etc. etc. show, even the children of fundamentalist anti-gay Christians COULD be gay!

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  17. 4:21
    'children of fundamentalist anti-gay Christians Could be gay' ya, thanks to the teachings of giving them thoughts that would NEVER enter their minds, had it not for the 'talk' of today and the teachings in some schools! We pray consitently that those who 'listen' to these deviant behaviour attitudes will be eventually be enlightened as to the false way of life, and of God's deliverance from these choices and attitudes!

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  18. Mick, why the shouting in your response to Tony? That kind of anger can't be healthy for you.


    People who use bigotry to speak against bigotry always tick me off . I mean Tony is sure their sre some peaceful Christioans out there ? LOL Gee I am sure their are some polite homosexuals out their . Sound a little condescending to you ? Remember when you reply and use the word Christian , your assuming that all share gary's views . Just like I would would never use the group of homosexuals here to broadbrush what most gays are like .

    It actually made me feel better , but thanks for your concern . Sorry if I woke you .
    ;o)

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  19. Oshtur I wish I could figure out how to do the darkening thing . You told me at least twice but can't figure it out.

    Mick, everyone already has 'marriage rights'. Rights exist before government, they don't come from government. Jefferson thought they were a result of the deist universal Creator's intent, some here think they are bestowed by a sky god, "



    Oshtur I agree with much you say here , but also some believe rights come from their earth god , which is themselves only or a bunch of like minded that think their way . Some even believe our rights come from the government replacing the sky god .



    The biological nature thing can get a little thin if your nature is say to be impulsive , or some kind of other biological happening with birth , my example is blindness. Blind people do not have a Constitutional Right to drive a car .
    You and I are subject to the same laws . We discussed this before , I would agree with you that you have equal rights with me . You don't agree with that because you can not marry another man . I don't agree with your view .Legal government marriage is not an alienable right that the Federalist papers discuss or the rights I find in the Bibical texts . Al;so not all athesists agree with you . So the I am right your wrong approch fails .
    I see where your coming from , I just disagree with it . Mostly from my side it may be cultural , and perhaps when homosexual marriage becomes more common place it will be less a of hot button issue . But from what I have seen so far , whennever it becomes prominent , the culture that has brought it on becomes less tolerant to religious beliefs . Picking which rights we defend and support is common place in this debate.

    "The question is do all citizens have the right to license the civil contract in support of marriage with their spouse, regardless of that spouse's gender. I of course say yes - "

    Yes and you see alienable rights coming from biology as you have stated . I don't neither did the people writing our Constitution. But secular thought is becoming prominent , thus your Biological view is becoming more prominent.
    But again it is culturally based, not Constitutionally supported . What happens if the culture changes , you loose your Constitution rights . Its why I support Constitional intent , this issue is just one of many that may be affected if we allow the cultural majority of the time dictate who and who does not have rights.

    Not that it matters to most lefties , but I do warn say that if the Constitution is looked upon without importance to original intent , say if a religious people became very prominent in America, theocracy could be seen behind every phrase in the Constitution / Legally Vermont allowed gay marriage , I find no problem with that Constitutionally .




    "For those that think these rights are just a 'thing' bestowed by a god, that's religion and our primary right is the right to our own religion, and by corollary, acknowledging everyone else's right to NOT be our religion."



    Emmm but I flaw in your logic . For one thing two athesist can have totally different opinions on abortion, gay marriage , and such . Those primary rights should not be just your athesistic biological view point using your assumption that because your biological views have a right to be what everything is based on. I believe your views are no less important then the athesist who disagrees with you or mine . But the Constitution it self was written by those with a world view closer to mine in regards to inalienable rights. That does make me right , but that does mean if you support original Intent , you need to change marriage laws through legislatures or voting . Not courts. If you do not believe original intent , well we have what we see now . Judges picked on their political beliefs and expertise instead of just Judical expertise.



    "Ifthe only reason you have is to say that somehow my relationship with my husband is different than Cindy-Lou's with hers then its up to you to show that difference, "

    Not to me , one I would consider it rude from my upbringing to say your relationship was wrong . If I knew you well , I think I would be more inclined to maybe explain why i think it was harmfull to your life . As Christrians call it it would be witnessing , but being someone that appears totally against the Gospel , in fact I have discerned you tend to think Christ being Lord as a superstition . So I don't even think if I knew you really well I would bring it up . I would tend to make fun of your politics .

    Also I don;t have to explain or show why i vote for a tax levy . Homosexual marriage does have more importance in my opion , but from a government view point no more of a basis for me to have to defend or support your position . Thats up to those whowish to . Unfortunately I have seldom seen a good debate among folks on the subject with aloot of sterotypes and condemnation from both sides.



    "is is where your side fails - you try, yes you try, but l you can't use American principles to justify your discrimination and the courts say that it is unjustified and the laws that allow such discrimination are unconstitutional."

    According to Oshtur the god it fails in your view of Constituional Rights . Ok your right . Should I pray to you ? Or just accept that the athesist with biological fuctions that does not agree with you is a lesser god ? The very Founding Fathers who wrote this Constitution would not support Homosexual marriage . As pointed out often they also supported slavery. So yes I see your point . I just do not agree with it , and because of this am tagged as a biggot etc . I know . But what is important to people , even biggots if you need to inject that into the debate , is the fact that I believe with all my heart , with all I know , which has been shaped by life , reading , experiences justa s yours. That a standard of a mom and dad is important to stopping many of the problems that happen to kids and follows through to when they become adults. I also see this culture making a terrible mistake in how we value people in general . Including homosexuals. You have never proven to me what is biologically a fact , for a child to be born a man and woman is needed. That if that child is separated from their mother or father they have to deal with a natural state of rejection . Homosexual marriage is allowing the standard of marriage to be qual with those who from the very beginning can only have a family based on rejection . That is discriminatorty to me . Peace

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  20. Mick you misunderstand the entire issue. The state need not license a civil contract of marriage at all, if there was none there would be no 'marriage equality' issue because everyone would have equal access to, well, nothing.

    But it does and therefore there is an American principle of treating all citizens the same under the law, that if its going to license a contract in support of marriage it has to show why its NOT going to license the contract to all married citizens regardless of the gender of their spouse. The 'inalienable right' is one of equal treatment under the law.

    As to this thread, its about a student initiative to support everyone's right to be free from bullying and violence. You don't agree, don't be silent.

    As to the bill nothing has been done with it since it was introduced. Another teapot tempest - good use for all those left over teabags. ;)

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  21. "Mick you misunderstand the entire issue. The state need not license a civil contract of marriage at all, if there was none there would be no 'marriage equality' issue because everyone would have equal access to, well, nothing."


    So in your view if marriage had no civil support, you would be ok with that . In your opinion then marriage is not needed to be , or not important enough to have the state believe its important ? Or that the nuclear family is not the essence of logic , I just wish the left put up that arguement to more people. This would become a non issue.

    This is not about a student initiative , this is a top down propaganda issue. The people propetuating this from listening to how they speak about others are not concerned about bullying or respect . I was somewhat surprised you supported it actually. I would be more prone to support it if it was more of an out of classroom , say silence between classes or whatever . This activitism in the classroom I have always been against . From either side actually .

    No need to be against it from my view , in any areas where education and where people see bullying as wrong its not supported. Education is the focus for schools and bullying is wrong regardless who is doing it . Even against those at tea parties.

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  22. So in your view if marriage had no civil support, you would be ok with that.No, read the next paragraph. The reason its a marriage equality issue is because the state DOES license a contract. IF didn't there would be no equality issue but because IT DOES, there is.

    This is stated because some wooly headed thinkers equate the contract with 'marriage', i.e. you aren't married if you don't have the contract. Not true. The contract is just a civil contract in marriage's support. People would marry regardless, the contract just helps make marriage better.

    This is not about a student initiative , this is a top down propaganda issue. The people propetuating this from listening to how they speak about others are not concerned about bullying or respectYou are wrong. These people here talking about it aren't the ones doing it, students are.

    I would be more prone to support it if it was more of an out of classroom , say silence between classes or whatever.And with this statement you show you haven't bothered to really find out about the program at all. Got to their website and you will find that silence in the class room is [only WITH the consent of the teacher, they specifically tell them they can NOT refuse to talk to a teacher. They recommend that they could just be silent between classes, at lunch, etc.

    This is only about an anti-bullying effort by the students, its not about 'gay' other than as a popular kind of bullying, its not school-sponsored, and the fact that activists like Mr. Hutcherson try to it into something its not is the real propaganda.

    I mean look at the supposed response, the Day of Truth. Its pure anti-gay, even though the Day of Silence is only anti-bullying. Who's pushing the propoganda?

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  23. "The reason its a marriage equality issue is because the state DOES license a contract. IF didn't there would be no equality issue but because IT DOES, there is."

    Interesting indeed , Would you say that was a popular opionion . That really is something I have not thought of , I see your point . Like if I gave my child a notebook for school , and did not give the other one to another child that is how you see this .

    Its not exactly the importance of giving the note book , but the fact one gets one and the other does not .


    "only WITH the consent of the teacher,"



    "sigh" shows you do not know what propaganda means . kids will only pray in a classroom with the consent oof the teacher , kids will only support tea parties with the consent of the teacher , etc .

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  24. "Homosexuality is NOT a "divient"

    1203 You use a term quite more reserved then in scripture and equate it with bigotry . And you wonder in the back and forth why your position is considered bigotry ? My kid who is shacking up with his girlfriend , which to me is the same as two homosexuals shacking up , and I do not allow it in my house that is biggotry .
    Or if i chose to use Bibical scripture where terms are used quite stronger the deviant , i am bigoted against my son . Actually in this culture i tey to use different words but with the same meaning . Thats not bigotry , Because your in a culture that does not understand , you jump to a conclusion about what another person is thinking and trying to say on a blog . Thats bigotry .

    No the use of the term is perhaps in appropriate in regards to this culture , for one if I am not trying to explain or show the reason why living together is harmful to both partners , the scripture alone is out of context to many . But blaming someone for their communication skills is another manner . As if the gays here are preaching understanding and respect also ??? Only to selected groups from i read .

    Your coming on to an Evangelical web site with the only intention of atatcking and mis characterizing scripture and those who use them . Thats what it looks like . Is that the case . Then I suggest an apology is in order if it is not . Perhaps a conversation may flow after ? From my experience , I ahve been been quite glad when I have understood where gays are coming from . Not your political views , buut the fact gays are just looking what we are all looking for . Love , acceptance , friendship . Nothing wrong with that my friend .


    Your lack of understabnding shows you have no understanding or desire to respect or tolerate understanding of the importance to many people of abstinence till marriage view point in the emotional and physical health of the people involved . Just as if you used terms in your culture that were used I am sure I would find them offensive if you used them to describe people with a more traditional outlook . Because I am not in your circels , are the terms more offensive ? Read the Bible and some translations and deviant is not such a harsh term IMO.

    In the words of my Mom .... grow up . get over it . regardless of politics, homosexuals in realationshipsin or out of marriage will be seen by many as inappropriate and harmful to the people especiallyy involved in them . That said , how we go from their in mutual respect is where it is at . Just like I realize you want nothing to do with Christianity or at least the traditional understanding of it . As do many people in this culture who seem to have no problem knowing some of things they do are wrong from a Christian view point , in fact for that matter some of the things I do are wrong .



    Your move
    Mick

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  25. Interesting indeed , Would you say that was a popular opionion?That's why its called marriage equality So yes I would - if there was no civil contract what would there be to fuss about?

    Like if I gave my child a notebook for school , and did not give the other one to another child that is how you see this.No its more pervasive - its saying some students can have a calculator and some can not. Ever.

    sigh" shows you do not know what propaganda means . kids will only pray in a classroom with the consent oof the teacher , kids will only support tea parties with the consent of the teacher , etc .I don't even get your reference, the Day of Silence in class participation will only happen if the teacher agrees to accommodate it, meaning their participation and involvement is voluntary.

    As to your examples I don't even understand them, a child doesn't have to ask permission to pray silently as long as they don't disturb the class - prayer happens in your head. And yes if there were going to be 'in class aspects of a political demonstration they should only do so with permission or are you implying with both that they shouldn't ask the teacher's permission and by extension neither should the Day of Silence participants?

    So if you only do it with the teachers permission its 'propganda' but if you don't its something else?

    I am seriously lost over what you are trying to say...

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  26. "That's why its called marriage equality So yes I would - if there was no civil contract what would there be to fuss about?

    "I and others would still consider it was important to set up support for marriage . Its a view point . I think your wrong about that , your out of the loop as they say . My sister who is gay would still consider marriage as an important commitment to be reinforced in a society . Using civil and tax breaks is our soceity;s way of showing its importance . We give tax breaks say for mortgage interest because we saw that as important in building stability in communities and such .

    "No its more pervasive - its saying some students can have a calculator and some can not. Ever."

    No its saying the state will allow you to use the calculator if you are using it for your lessons, you want the student to use it for his own thing.

    ".I don't even get your reference, the Day of Silence in class participation will only happen if the teacher agrees to accommodate it, meaning their participation and involvement is voluntary."

    No it mans the teacher is sanctioning the behavior , if the teacher grades on class participation she or he is making a conscientious decision to allow this . That is what I am speaking to . If their was a day of science to protest the way religion was taken out of public schools , and the teacher agreed to allow that student to be exempt from particpating in that class that same day I would believe it to be the same thing . Hence you have some teachers participating based on their own sense of beliefs . Out of the classroom no problemo .




    "So if you only do it with the teachers permission its 'propganda' but if you don't its something else?"

    If the teacher is allowing the student to be exempt from what the other students are that day I do not see how its so hard to consider other activities that could accur that you as a parent would not appreciatte the teacher allowng to be exwempted . The typical left wing examople of allowing prayer in school , so do you allow satanist pray .Hence you allow bullying to be exempted to particpate in a day , then you do allow students being exempted who wany drugs legamized " ok maybe a bad example for seattle liberal 'o). If you allow one group of kids to be exempted from school particpation , do you allow Neo nazis to ? keep this stuff out of the classroom is my view , it just happens to be a gay issue in this case . In a left leaning area , I see only liberal issues being shown tolerance , hence exposing the more traditional kids feeling left out . Exactly what the day of silence is suppose to be stopping , I see it doing in some cases . How about a day of silence for parents ! I would support that .



    I would support a gay rights club to be allowed at apublic school say if a Bible club was allowed . I would not really support the gay club , unless it was atatck to removed from the school district . I really think you are seeing this ideaological and self interest in one political or civil rights cause , not sure how you say it .

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  27. "I and others would still consider it was important to set up support for marriage.Oh I would too, for all married citizens regardless of the gender of their spouse. That's the issue I was responding to - if the state is going to license a contract in support of marriage then all citizens should be able to license it with their spouse. That some are currently not is the problem.

    No its saying the state will allow you to use the calculator if you are using it for your lessons, you want the student to use it for his own thing.No that's the problem - they want to use it for the exact same thing the other students do, to 'make their marriage better - for themselves, their family, the state and society.' Yet some are allowed the calculator and some are not for no supportable reason.

    No it means the teacher is sanctioning the behaviorYes, the teacher is sanctioning the student's request to let them participate in an anti-bullying statement. Just like kids wear costumes to class for various school functions (our drama club had a whole week where the assumed the personal of some famous writer all day, I know they still do similar things), participate in school elections, many such things through out the school year.

    If their was a day of science to protest the way religionSee my mind can't even connect with that - your example would be about protesting something someone thought was 'good', exactly who is FOR bullying? You sound like you are saying that a student-lead school initiative to fight bullying is infringing on someone else's opinion. Who are these pro-bullying people you think are being marginalized?

    The typical left wing examople of allowing prayer in school , so do you allow satanist prayWe already allow any kind of prayer a student wants to engage in personally, you are talking like 'organized prayer' is the same as 'prayer'. No we don't allow organized prayer, but any student can take a moment and pray to themselves any time they want.

    Its statements like yours that come up from your side that makes me think you live in an alternate universe - shoot I knew two pious young ladies in high school that prayed all the time, you'd see them in class, before tests, when they heard bad news. Where do you get the idea that people can't pray in school? Its like you are mad about something that isn't even true.

    I would support a gay rights club to be allowed at a public school say if a Bible club was allowedWell I don't know of any 'gay rights' clubs, but Bible clubs are allowed as per the ACLU:

    Student organized Bible clubs are permissible as long as three conditions are met:
    1. The activity must take place during non-school hours.
    2. School officials cannot be involved in organizing or running the club.
    3. The school must make all facilities available to all student groups on an equal basis.
    So a Bible group may not be the only group allowed access to the school grounds. The school also may not allow the building to be used as a meeting area for other groups but deny your bible group from joining.
    Again, I repeat - so many of you seem to be mad about things that just aren't true. Kids ARE allowed to pray in school, Bible Clubs ARE allowed, other teacher-approved student participation class events happen all the time, and where in the world are these pro-bullying people that are being marginalized by The National Day of Silence?? I mean its like saying they can't have Black History month events because it will upset the racists...

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  28. I mean its like saying they can't have Black History month events because it will upset the racists...

    Not really Oshtur , I have always been against black history month .Black History should be everyday , every month . Your somewhat idealogically challenged on this topic. . But I will try again . Racists are winning as long as we have treated blacks with one month . not saying you are racist if you support black history month , just saying its part of the liberal responce that does little , as would a day of silence to support black history supported by people who perhaps have quite strange views on black history . Such as some of the organizations supporting day of silence . Hence as you argue , people get the wrong idea of what the support is really for , why because no one is talking about it except groups who have some very divisive opinions. You can't even understand my attempt to fairness, interesting I have other liberals who have . Conservatives who think I am liberal on this issue do also . I am trying to be fair , and attempting to handle the problem of gays and everyone being bullied. Not setting one group over the other . Not allowing a serious issue like kids feeling intimidated when they are in a public facility ,

    This includes not being felt intimidated to come out and say they are gay , or whatever . I see an advocay for that , and indeed allowing kids to feel safe and secure in the classroom does not seem to part of your priority here.
    Why are not ALL kids a priority . When ALL kids are the priority , I think the bullying issue would be better attacked.
    .

    No its saying the state will allow you to use the calculator if you are using it for your lessons, you want the student to use it for his own thing.No that's the problem - they want to use it for the exact same thing the other students do, to 'make their marriage better - for themselves, their family, the state and society.' Yet some are allowed the calculator and some are not for no supportable reason.

    But you digress , the opposing opinion is tha is not the exact same thing, marriage will not bemade better , etc etc . The calculator will be used for for a different purpose .

    No it means the teacher is sanctioning the behaviorYes, the teacher is sanctioning the student's request to let them participate in an anti-bullying statement. Just like kids wear costumes to class for various school functions (our drama club had a whole week where the assumed the personal of some famous writer all day, I know they still do similar things), participate in school elections, many such things through out the school year.

    Totally different and approved through the school district . Hence elected school board . You may as well make a link with day of silence supporting any issue , one you agree with or not . Thats not what your doing .

    If their was a day of science to protest the way religionSee my mind can't even connect with that - your example would be about protesting something someone thought was 'good', exactly who is FOR bullying? You sound like you are saying that a student-lead school initiative to fight bullying is infringing on someone else's opinion. Who are these pro-bullying people you think are being marginalized?

    That is strange , you can not understand the opposing view . When you put someone on pedastil , it means others are below it . Hence you highlight one religion you are in a sense saying others are not as important . Christmas was taken out of much of the public schools for the exact same reason . Schools do have anti bullying curricullum , I see nothing wrong with that . using gays as an example in the curricullum would be logical to me , but making gays the only examples , the only concern , well I find it actually doing the opposite in some regards. Your focusing on one group of people, ad as obvious as here , and yourself and myself , the issue is often seen as one group deserves to be stereotyped and disrespected .

    The typical left wing examople of allowing prayer in school , so do you allow satanist prayWe already allow any kind of prayer a student wants to engage in personally, you are talking like 'organized prayer' is the same as 'prayer'. No we don't allow organized prayer, but any student can take a moment and pray to themselves any time they want.

    No I am not . If a student was allowed not to particpate in a day of class because they were praying the whole class, the teacher made an excemption for one religious group , that would be UnConstitiuional with teacher support . Now if was a day of prayer for all religions , the athesist could claim Unconsttutional because they were left out and made to be treated differently and particpate . I believe so anyway . You have a teacher in a sense supporting a specfic Christian prayer time by allowing that student to not particpate while other students were required to .

    "Its statements like yours that come up from your side that makes me think you live in an alternate universe - "

    You and my wife. ;0)



    'Where do you get the idea that people can't pray in school? Its like you are mad about something that isn't even true."

    Not mad at all . I don't support organized school prayer . One of the few things I am on the left side of . I do how ever believe in prayer , and the kind of prayer as you speak about .



    Well I don't know of any 'gay rights' clubs, but Bible clubs are allowed as per the ACLU:

    Well gay rights clubs are around . In Utah they made a big stink about them and I believ ending up outlawing the Bible clubs because you could not Constitutionally allow one and not the other . Makes sense to me in clubs , but not marriage .



    ' I repeat - so many of you seem to be mad about things that just aren't true."



    Not at all , people see it as double standard and advocacy . Tried to give examples of things that seem quite innocent to those on the other side . Teacher allowing singing Christam carrols during class time . Well you believe that is different then a class being disrupted by people NOT particpating being better ? Both classes are disrupted from a typical school day . The day of silence is an attempt to change bring attention to a specfic issue . Not at all opposed to the issue actually , gay bashing was around when I was a kid .But allowing Christmas Carols being sung , and getting the teacher involved in the silence or singing , is a violation of the public trust . Indeed if bullying was really the issue , why not just lobby the district like the rest of us do . Christmas carols and the school district just honoring families , why have teachers particpating and some not causing division , are teachers who agree its inappropriate libel to be stereotyped like you did here about those who disagree with you . Are the students who think singling out one group , hence making one more imprtant then others from their view have to be labeled and ridiculed because you don't think they have legimate points , or views worth just respecting even if you disagree. I remember when kids would bully me and call me fagit and such . It was common names people called anyoe they wanted to intimidate . You don't have to be gay to be bullied . Why are you so supportive of one group of people with out includding all of us . Just seems it would make more sense and support to include all of us . No one likes to be made to look stupid , ignorant , bullied because someone disagrees with how they look , or whatever . Even pious people that pray .

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  29. This includes not being felt intimidated to come out and say they are gay , or whatever . I see an advocay for that , and indeed allowing kids to feel safe and secure in the classroom does not seem to part of your priority here.Then you know nothing about the issue and obviously have no desire to learn anything about the issue. This is about bullying, its about students who are sexually bullied no matter what their own sexual orientation is. Again, the boy who committed suicide was bullied and he wasn't even gay. This is a student led activity that they ask a teacher for cooperation. Are you really saying they have no right to ask? I mean what country do you live in?

    When you put someone on pedastil , it means others are below itAnd yet so many of your examples are bemoaning that Christian celebrations no longer are on the pedestal. Surely you can see the incongruity there?

    Now if was a day of prayer for all religionsAll religions don't pray.

    Well gay rights clubs are around . In Utah they made a big stink about them and I believ ending up outlawing the Bible clubs because you could not Constitutionally allow one and not the otherNo those were gay/straight alliance clubs, not gay rights clubs. Odd that people see clubs dedicated to everyone having equal rights as only involving one side.

    And yes, you can just disallow all clubs to prevent one, but such white as sepulchers' hard-hearted people are much talked about in the Bible and other places. It wasn't either clubs fault they could no longer meet - look else where.

    You don't have to be gay to be bullied .Exactly, and as you know from your reading you must have done to ethically comment on the issue you know that sexual orientation bullying is more pervasive than almost any other kind, more tolerated and least moved on by teachers, administrations and fellow students. Hence the student run initiatives to bring attention to it and clearly state is really is wrong, even above the general bullying efforts.

    As was clear, the only activists here are the people like Mr. Hutchenson trying to turn a good thing into a political issue. Shame on him, shame on those who support this kind of bullying.

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  30. i"And yet so many of your examples are bemoaning that Christian celebrations no longer are on the pedestal. Surely you can see the incongruity there?'


    Exactly. and since less programs and acknowledgements have been allowed in public schools regardless they are majorities cultural celebrations , the religious viewpoint of acknowledging what was the vast majority populations holiday lost using one arguement of inclusivness , Holdiay Cacations , holiday festivals , etc .
    , I stated I thought instead of specfically using gay bullying we make inclusive to all bullying . Interesting you can not not see the double standard .


    Which was my point . And when i was a yough , the bullying done in my School was not in regards to homosexuality . The vast majority was done to weaker kids perceived by bullies . The cultural explotiation , including much by homosexual activitism has hurt kids even who are not gay more then Christians . The political vulgarity of this debate has no no side claiming moral superiority from the view point of what kids are exposed to today in public schools . They are not gay kids , they are kids of Fundamentalists , they are just kids as far as I am concerned . Interestingly organizations that are promoting the day of silence by defintition of their biological constitutional rights , have none or a small amount of kids in the public schools . I suggest to you that parents still should be that homosexual or religious activists have a right to by pass curricullum and proven methods of the democratic process that builds healthy and united communities. Shame on those who believe they are morally superior and can dictate to parents how bullying and other issues should be handled . If the District chose to do support one curricullum that only specified one group of people , their is a process that allows parents and voters to particpate . Otherwise , you have folks who obviously have little respect from their obvious lack of considering the accepted process of public education . Don't like it , home school .

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  31. I stated I thought instead of specfically using gay bullying we make inclusive to all bullyingthey already have that, what's lacking is protecting against sexual orientation bullying. One study showed that its more likely a teacher will correct a student chewing gum in class than stop sexual orientation related bully. That's why the students are concerned, that's why they work to increase awareness that it is wrong.

    I mean Mick, we've all seen this tactic before - when you can't win on the merits complain that the program isn't 'inclusive' enough - you have basically taken over the 90's left tactics.

    Don't you feel dirty?

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